posted 26 July 2000 13:14               

Actually, I DO like the pop-ups, even if it seems Un-American... I like Big Round Headlights. Perhaps it's Freudian, but there they are! However, they're not aerodynamic and they CAN contribute to pedestrian injuries, so one should expect them to disappear from production cars.

posted 27 July 2000 09:34               

quote:

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Originally posted by indiana:
there is nothing like not seeing half hte road, hahaha jokes guys, i appreciate hte pop-ups, but...mazda should have made them brighter, haha lee...

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posted 27 July 2000 23:31               

1) Compromised aerodynamics and consequent increase in fuel consumption.

2) Increased weight

3)Greater complexity - higher failure probability

4) Risk of freezing shut in winter with potential for damage if operated when frozen

5)More surface area to clean (and very difficult to clean under)(at least they don't collect bugs when not in use)

Form must not compromise function!

1) We drive sports cars not Ford Escorts.
2) The M1 still achieves 50/50 weight distribution (and quit reading what the "experts" have to say for the change)
3) Extremely rare. I've never had a problem with my Miata nor earlier Rx-7. Trust me, my 4 yr old nephew has put them to the test.
4) 1" thick ice on hood/lights in Durango 1989. Popped up the Rx-7 lights and watched ice shatter. Not a problem - the motors are seriously strong (same motor in the Miata).
5)Try cleaning under a fixed headlight

This is form over function. Function comes first, then form. The M1 barn doors are of great form and then they still function perfectly!

posted 28 July 2000 09:25               

"I LOVE BARNDOORS AND I VOTE!!!"

posted 28 July 2000 11:47            

Always happy to provide a little fun! Continuing in that vein ….

1. All design involves compromise*, however, the essence of the sports car is to bias the compromise toward dynamic performance at the possible expense of style or amenities. Earlier sports cars looked different from other cars largely because they offered the improved aerodynamics of race cars in a era when street car aerodynamics were of little concern. And fuel economy IS important, even in a racing venue, pit stops are costly! Power consumed by headlight drag could better be used to propel the car more quickly.

2. Weight distribution is not the end game – WEIGHT IS STILL THE ENEMY and any opportunity to reduce it without sacrificing necessary function is GOOD!

3. Perhaps the WET snow / freezing rain that we have in Virginia differs from the Colorado experience – no way my pop-ups would have broken last winters crusts! If the motors are that strong they would have bent something!

4. That a design may be complex yet reliable is not the point. Avoiding unnecessary complexity obviates the question. Complexity also has cost implications and as new challenges enter the market it is important that Mazda cling to the low ground.

5. Admittedly a trivial concern, but I’ve not had a car with fixed headlights that covered such large “rat holes” and cleaning them requires pulling fuses (or otherwise disabling the motors) to avoid risking an appendage.

As I said, the barn doors DO provide character and I too enjoy their charm – just not enough to justify the compromises. If “charm” were the yardstick we might be driving PT Cruisers – oops, that’s a different thread.

Regards,
Richard

* the first rule of engineering: there is no “free lunch”

posted 29 July 2000 17:38               

Has anyone painted the black plastic? PIcs?

-Eff

posted 30 July 2000 21:56               

Membership never exceeded 1000 though. Damn!
MiataUSA says that what it would have taken to reinstate the pop-ups for the 2002 M3.

posted 03 August 2000 16:56               

quote:

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Originally posted by Dale Kenyon:
One thing about the M1 headlights. You never see a Miata running around with one headlight up or both halfway up--unlike some other makes I could name.

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On my old 92 if i pushed the button in the dash fast enough I could manage to get one up and one down. then all i had to do would be turn the lights on and off again to fix it. it looked pretty cool actually.

posted 04 August 2000 11:17            

I think it may be an age thing. Possibly, we oldtimers like the barn doors because it has a "nostalgic feel"

And the young skippys like the M2's lights better because they don't share our nostalgia.